The Power of Emotion: Creating Content that Converts

Joe Ducarreaux: Hello and welcome to this Essential B2B webinar entitled The Power of Emotion: Creating Content that Converts. Joining me to discuss that very topic is Christina Garnet, MBA – awarding winning advocacy strategist for Hubspot. Hi Christina, how are you today?

Christina Garnett: I’m doing well, thank you so much for having me.

Joe Ducarreaux: It is our pleasure. Let’s get stuck straight into this, shall we? What do you think are the most effective ways to create a connection with your audience through your content?

Christina Garnett: You have to be able to give them something that doesn’t look like anyone else’s content. You have to resonate with them on a level that immediately catches their attention. In some way that’s human. We see this on TikTok a lot. There’s a lot of storytime content. As soon as you see a person’s face framed in a certain way, you know you’re about to get a story. So you stop because you have this expectation. It really comes down to, do you understand the kind of content your target audience wants or what they need, even? As you have that understanding not only will you be able to determine what’s working and what’s not working but you are going to be able to create a plan for what future content needs to look like.

Joe Ducarreaux: How do you go about building trust and credibility with your audience then?

Christina Garnett: It really comes down to consistency. If I know there’s consistency in the pattern you’re creating, I know that you’re going to talk to us in a certain way. I know that I can come to you specifically to get some type of information and then my experience agrees with that. That’s going to build trust over time. A really great example of this are Youtubers and influencers on TikTok as well, when they recommend something and you go based on their recommendation and your experience parallels, is equal to the same sort of situation …….versus this was clearly an Ad because my experience is completely opposite of what I was expecting based on your recommendation. Having that honestly and having that track record of “if they say this is good, then it’s going to be good”. That takes time sadly but once you have it, it pays dividends. It’s a huge unlock for brands.

Joe Ducarreaux: I think you are absolutely right. Particularly with your example of Youtubers and influencers, I think we’ve probably all seen examples of creators that we know and we are familiar with and we have been following for a certain amount of time. Occasionally you can feel let down when you can see quite obviously they’ve done something for a quick pay day or something like that. Suddenly you’re, “I’m not entirely sure this is the sort of product or service that you genuinely believe in, so you’ve probably done this just to make a quick buck”.

Christina Garnett: It’s sad though because it takes such a long time to build that trust but it takes one major error to destroy all of it. So it’s like you’re building this tower of glass, it takes a long time but one little rock and it’s gone.

Joe Ducarreaux: It is tricky once you get started but you’re absolutely right on the consistency piece. Personally, we have the Essential B2B podcast that has gone out and one of the reasons that’s done well is because we have consistently, every Friday at 3pm GMT/BST we release an episode and a post to go with it. That speaks to the consistency piece for sure. What are the common mistakes companies make when creating their content and can be done to avoid replicating those mistakes?

Christina Garnett: I think that there are two big ones. One, is ignoring what their audience needs. If you don’t have a social listening platform or you don’t have a social listening programme for your brand and you are not taking the time to understand how your consumers, how your customers, how your prospective customers are talking about you or talking about your specific vertical. How are you able to really provide them with something that is striking and resonates? You’re not. It’s also important to note that feedback, that feedback loop essentially creates an opportunity for you to be able to read the room. If you are creating content that is no longer relevant or let’s say that you have a huge customer base that is angry about something and they are continuing to push for a response or answer or a resolution. And you just keep piping out content just like it’s a normal Friday, you’re actually pouring gasoline on a really big fire. Because you’re showing, “oh we’re still working, we’re just not going to answer you the way that you want us to, we’re not going to do anything that impacts you specifically”. That leads into the other problem which is trend hijacking. A lot of brands are so focused on virality they completely ignore that vitality is very much a double edged sword. You can go viral for all the right reasons and you can go viral for all the wrong reasons. It needs to align with your brand, it needs to align with the kind of customers you want to keep and gain. If you don’t understand how people feel about you, how they feel about our vertical and you’re not reading the room. Then you are going to trend hijack and it’s going to be even worse. Because it’s not going to be on brand, it’s going to open you up to liability, it’s going to open you up to negative conversations about your brand. I think we are seeing this a lot on social with specific brands where they are turning their brand into chaos. They are the ones that are going to make you think “I can’t believe they just posted that”. The problem with that is that every time you pull that lever it becomes less and less powerful. It then becomes expected and you’re just the chaos brand and then it no longer works. You’ve literally destroyed your brand for eyeballs and engagement and then that just becomes your new brand and it doesn’t even move the needle anymore. It’s just really sad that for the sake of virality we’re seeking content that doesn’t fit brands, it doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t align with business goals just for the sake of “if we burn the whole place down, we’ll get an article about us or we’ll go viral”. That’s not always the answer.

Joe Duccareaux: Again, with the consistency piece, as you say it’s very difficult to keep that up. You may have one post that goes absolutely gangbusters but you can’t keep up with that sort of thing. As you say you’ll burn out very quickly. Touching on mistakes, how do you ensure that your content encourages your audience to take the desired action from that piece of content?

Christina Garnett: You need to know what motivates them. Thinking about what do I want them to do and then you need to reverse engineer it. If I want them to do a specific action, what does that CTA need to look like? What is going to make them actually want to complete the CTA? What do I need to do in order to encourage that? So it’s Trigger, then Emotion, then Behaviour. You need to make sure you have that thought process laid out. A lot of what we see in the virality is that they’ve weaponised anger. A lot of the press does it really well, sadly. They will have a clickbait, really like a hatebait, headline. Because they know that people are going to go on Twitter and they are going to quote tweet it with “No” and then they get read the riot act. But they don’t care because they got clicks. They’re like we took your clicks, they don’t care. Thanks for your click. That’s emotion. What they’ve done is reverse engineered. One of the most powerful emotions is anger, is hate. We see that globally. The people who are able to go viral, the people who are able to capture a lot of conversation and attention….it’s because they have weaponized anger and hate knowing that that’s such a powerful motivator that it’s going to make you behave in a certain way. It doesn’t matter because all of those behaviours are going to lead to talking about me, you’re clicking on my articles. If that’s what I wanted and I don’t mind it coming from a negative connotation, then I’m just going to keep doing that and that’s what we continue to see. It’s just really sad because there are a lot of great journalists and a lot of great web content out there that’s doing fantastic but because they’re not resorting to this hate/anger conversation it just doesn’t have the traffic.

Joe Duccareaux: It definitely seems to be the case that outrage is certainly the cheapest emotion to sell, the easiest one to sell isn’t it. I heard a little while ago on a podcast people talking about American Idol and how Simon Cowell doesn’t care if you like his show or not. Because people who don’t like the show will still watch it, to go “this is rubbish”. It’s a compelling point you make. You’ve really got to question yourself. It’s all very well if you can get a larger audience quicker by selling anger and hate, is that really what you want to be building your brand on?

Christina Garnett: Ideally the answer is not. Ideally the answer is no. But there’s like this machiavellian content creator persona and we see it across all channels. It’s definitely a hard core question and it’s definitely something people need to consider but at the end of the day if what you’re chasing is status and clout, do the ends justify the means? For many people sadly the answer is yes absolutely, let’s go, let’s burn it all down! I challenge people to take the harder route. It’s sad but that’s how a lot of people make their bread and butter, that’s how they do it.

Joe Duccareaux: Absolutely! At the very start of the chat Christina, you mentioned videos in a certain format and there being a literacy ….with you understanding okay there’s a story coming to this one now. How can you use storytelling to make your content more compelling and engaging?

Christina Garnett: I really like the Pixar story spine. I think it’s a really great foundation if you are thinking about how you want to do stories. Pixar is the master of being able to make you cry in a children’s movie, they’ve nailed it. No-one is better. The Pixar story spine is basically a sequence of like ….and this happens and then this happens. It walks you through essentially the hero’s journey ….this person is here, this is who they are, there’s a challenge, because of this challenge. I think the really great thing about the storytelling that we see across content, that we see across literature, it’s been around forever. I’m an English major so the hero’s journey is well established. You can look at Greek mythology and you can look at all of these past things and there’s a lot of goodness there. There’s even, I forget who said it, but there’s to the effect of only 5 or 6 actual origin stories and everything after is like an amalgamation and tweaking of those stories. I find, like with most things, some things are timeless. What can you take that is timeless and how can you tweak it, manipulate it, mould it into something that fits for you. I think that that’s really (inaudible) and that sets that precedent because no matter who you are and where you live in the world you’ve heard stories. You know what nursery rhymes are, you’ve read fairy tales. They might differ slightly but you have this natural storytelling knowledge. So if you can find out what are the timeless activations that you can be a part of and then how you can make that part of your story, plug in the pieces that make you special and unique. I think that’s such a great way to tap into human behaviour as a whole. I know where this is going, this feels safe to me, I understand, I know where we can go from here. That also leads to the Trust too. There’s something that’s less dangerous, less scary when it’s like Okay, this recipe feels familiar to me, I know what this looks like. And you feel more compelled to join because it doesn’t feel so scary, it doesn’t feel as alien.

Joe Duccareaux: Despite that Pixar are talking about existentialism in what are essentially kids’ movies.

Christina Garnett: I love those layers.

Joe Duccareaux: You are absolutely right. Among other bits and pieces for Lead Forensics, I’ve previously made videos and every single one I’ve made, I’ve tried to go okay fair enough the brief is make a promotional video for X event or something. Within that I’ve gone, what’s the story of the event and the way that I’ve put it all together…..here’s the start of the day, we’re getting into it, here’s a little…… you’re absolutely right. We’ve talked about the creative side of creating content and storytelling, that sort of thing. How can you use data and analytics to measure the success of that content and then make informed decisions about what content you’re going to be making in the future?

Christina Garnett: I think you need to have a very good understanding of what is even possible to be measured based on where that story is being distributed. That could change the data points you could pull, there that will change the KPIs you’re going to be looking at to determine if it’s been successful. I think this is where you turn into Dr Strange for a little bit and you do some game theory. You can break down what are all the different variations of the data points we could find from this and then what aligns with our business goals. If I’m trying to drive traffic then obviously that’s going to be something for me. If I need a certain number of MQLs, that’s also going to dictate what that looks like. Understanding what are all the potential opportunities based on where it’s being distributed, is it paid or organic, are we even able to target it or are we just putting it in one specific location and hoping that’s enough. Whatever that looks like understanding what’s possible depending on where that content lives and how it’s getting to people and trying to find that sweet spot. Where is what we need to measure for success, where does that align with the actual data we can pull. You’re going to have vanity levels, it’s been seen by this many people. That’s really low impact. How can we dive a little bit deeper and how can we learn more? Maybe what you’re going to find is if I put it on channel A I’m going to get this kind of persona, which is more involved with our current customer base. But if I put it on channel B this is going to be more like our prospects, the people we would like to reach out to but we haven’t already created that relationship yet. The data you are going to be able to pull from each of those is going to mean two very different things. This on point A….. if we are looking at our customers, maybe they decide to upsell with us or maybe they share it with our community or maybe they are advocates for us and we increase brand affinity. But on point B ….maybe we get some leads, maybe we are able to get people into our flywheel and see if they want to learn more about us, get a demo or maybe figure out how they can use us in their daily work. You just have to be prepared, there’s no right or wrong answer. I hate being the person who says it depends but the answer is always ….it depends! We’re human, it’s always it depends.

Joe Duccareaux: It’s all relative. What types of content do you find mostly likely to generate conversions?

Christina Garnett: The stuff that’s going to excite you and to be able to immediately resonate with you. I see this with Ads all the time. If you see an Ad that does not feel right for you ….there’s nothing that makes me feel angrier than because I am a woman of a certain age, I know exactly why I’m seeing an Ad….”I don’t need that”…. and I’m angry because you assume that I need it because of my gender and age. Versus, me seeing something that I absolutely need and have been thinking about or wanting. You go from rejection and anger and how dare you, to is this a sign from the universe that I actually should be buying this because I’ve been thinking about it. It’s very different! But because of that it makes me behave in very different ways. So if you are able to see that and it feels compelling, it’s huge. I think TikTok does a great job of this because it’s able to create an experience that we don’t see on other channels. A really great example of this is haul videos. Where people will go in and show all the things that they bought. If I have found a creator that looks very similar to me, has a similar body shape that I do and I see this person get a haul, I see this person buy something and try it on and it looks amazing on them. That little gremlin in my head is going to say “you’d look just as good if you bought that. You should buy that too”. We see this across media in general. We want representation. So if there is a creator that resonates with us and feels like they represent us. If they buy something and they are happy with it and it looks great on them, then as a consumer I’m going to feel the same way….”I have to buy this, I will look just as good, it will look just as good on me”. We want experiences, we want content that specifically answers our use case. I can put myself in the position of the person who is the story hero or protagonist. If I am able to do that I am significantly more bonded emotionally to that sell because I can see myself. I’m already envisioning myself going through the process and then it’s just a matter of pulling my wallet out and going from there. That’s why “seen on TikTok”, “TikTok made me buy it”…..that’s the route of it. Your body is looking for excuses for dopamine and you know if you buy something you have that dopamine of “its coming”, I get to unbox it and I get this new shiny thing! Imagine if on top of that dopamine you get something that feels like it’s perfect for you. That’s a high! That’s an incredible human instinct! “I have to have it.” So, that I find is the stuff that drives conversions and you have to create this guttural desire that is stronger than the friction that is part of that process. If my desire is not stronger than the friction I will quit. We’ve all been in that process where we’re “oh I really want this, that’s really cool.” Then by the third or fourth page filling out information, you’re like “Nah”. We see this with job applications. “Found my dream job, this looks amazing. I have to write a cover letter. I guess it’s not my dream job. I’m good, I’ll pass.” Your desire has to be greater than the friction. If you can create that balance then you’re going to close the sale.

Joe Duccareaux: The reason I was smiling quite so much as you were talking through that sort of stuff, is I so recognise myself when that exact thing has actually happened. Let me tell you this Christina, after this chat you are 100% going to be served an Ad for a Pixar box set and the book Hero of 1000 faces.

Christina Garnett: And if they do it, well done! I will probably buy it. You heard me say it. I’d have to tweet them to say “well done, you got me”.

Joe Duccareaux: This is quite a tricky one, I think. So where there is so much content and so much noise on all platforms now, how can you make your content stand out above all that noise and be seen by the right people?

Christina Garnett: That is a hard question. At the end of the day it needs to feel like you are not creating and not publishing to publish. If you over time, going back to consistency, if you set up content that I know you’re going to be pushing, I know what you are known for, I know why to come to you. That’s going to create this thought leadership trust. Where if I have any concerns or I’m wondering who to go to, I know exactly who it would be. I think that’s why the ‘riches are in the niches’ conversation, is because by niching down you establish yourself as an expert. So are you going to get everybody’s attention, no! But you’re going to get all the attention from the people who need information about that specific content. They want to come to you, they are going to make a beeline straight for you. I think that thought leadership creates those relationships where you don’t have to compete in the feed because I will go directly to you. A great example: my daughter’s favourite Youtuber is Safiya Nygaard. I am always on the lookout for new videos from her. I don’t have to wait for Youtube to serve anything to me from her because that’s our Mommy-daughter date. We will go specifically to her feed and see if there’s anything new. Because of that, we know exactly what kind of content to expect from her and what that’s going to look like. There are times when we’re just hanging and she’ll say do you want to see if there’s anything new from Saf. Absolutely, let’s look! So just things like that, if you create that connection and that relationship with the people who are looking at your content over time, you don’t need to worry about the algorithm because they will come straight to you. You will be the destination instead of oh it’s the nice little algorithm roulette. You don’t have to worry about that if you create that but the sad thing is that takes time, that takes expectation. A great example is there’s an Instagram account called Sunday Scaries, that I absolutely adore. Every Friday, they have a meme for pop culture, from TV shows, there’s a lot from Succession and stuff like that. It basically says “slams laptop shut til Monday”. I do a story from it, I post my favourite one from the collection, it’s usually 10 different ones. It goes from like someone’s hungover, to someone’s drunk, to someone’s partying, to someone’s covered up in their blankets and hiding from the world. All the variations, the full gambit of what your Friday afternoon existential crisis looks like and you pick the one that resonates, you pick the one that’s like ‘that’s me, that’s going up on my story, that’s getting shared’. It always comes down to I know what to expect from them, I find myself….it’s this recipe, it all coalesces together.

Joe Duccareaux: It’s funny you mentioned about the YouTuber and the relationship. It’s now an event for yourself and your daughter. We have James Gale on a webinar and podcast recently who runs Shogun Social, its a social media agency. It sounds very much like what he was discussing which was the power of creating what he called a parasocial bond. The content creator doesn’t necessarily know who you are but you feel you have an intimate relationship with that person and it’s that much more powerful particularly if their face is in videos and that sort of thing as it breaks down layers upon layers, upon layers. I think that’s probably a powerful example that you mentioned there. Speaking of podcasts, videos and audios, how do you use different formats and mediums to reach a wider audience and better engage with them? We’ve mentioned TikTok haul videos and that sort of thing, are there any other tips and tricks you can offer to our audience?

Christina Garnett: The way that you distribute the content, think about how that creates those bonds and what that actually looks like. With a podcast I can hear you but I’ve no depth of understanding of what you look like or what you look like when you are making a joke. Or you’re mad but I can’t tell because your tone doesn’t sound any different. But if you put that video on Youtube, now I have this secondary layer. I can hear you but now I have this additional context of seeing your face and do you like wave aeroplanes in as you’re talking and so it creates the secondary understanding of oh that’s what you like and that’s what you look like when you are telling a joke or this is what you look like when you are thinking, or trying to figure out what to say next. The more people get to know you the deeper the connection feels. Whether that’s true or not, whether the person who is doing the podcast doesn’t even know you exist, the more time you spend with them…..and that’s what you are doing when you’re creating content you are asking someone to spend some time with you. I want you to read this blog I wrote, it’s going to take you about 10 minutes or I want you to spend some time with me, this podcast lasts 30 minutes. If you can’t get them to care about you, you can’t get them to spend that time with you. So thinking about the distribution points, it isn’t just a matter of here are all the different channels. I think that’s a big trap that people fall into, is that they try to be everywhere. Instead of being where they need to be in order to create the emotional bonds they want to create. Where do I need to be to make people understand like, she’s funny or she’s stupid or she’s silly or I could learn from her. Versus no I prefer her in written form, I prefer her when she is just writing. Really thinking about how people connect with you and understanding the user behaviours. People who listen to a podcast are going to look at that very differently than on YouTube. For example, how many podcasts are you going to listen to that are 2 hours long? But I could go on Youtube and if there are video essays on there that are so well done, you have my full 2 hours. If you do a video essay on The Lord of The Rings, I am seated, I’m here, give me all of it. But if you put that 2 hour video on Twitter, Facebook or TikTok, I’d be like nah, absolutely not. That has nothing to do with the content, it has to do with the fact my user behaviour is very different there. That’s why I think it is very interesting to see what YouTube Shorts is doing and how they are competing with TikTok. They are basically the trusted version of TikTok. My kids know they can’t go on TikTok but they will go on YouTube Shorts and so they can see the more G rated contents. They know trends, they know what trending audio is happening. I will mention a meme, they will totally get it and I know they are not seeing it on TikTok, they are seeing the ones that were brought over to YouTube Shorts. But if TikTok says we can watch a whole movie on TikTok, I don’t know how many people would do that. Because of the ephemeral nature of it, the quickness of it, I need it to be in multiple things. That’s why you have accounts that will be like storytime and its 8 pieces. I know you can be more concise but you’re going to get me to watch 8 videos because you’re going to pull me and I’m going to swipe, “where’s part 2”? They never do them back to back either. If you see something that has a really compelling video, they have that hook of ‘to be continued’ and it’s like a Dickensian serial where you have to wait a couple of weeks and it’s like why in 2023 do I have to wait…upload it! You’re right here, upload it! So things like that.

Joe Duccareaux: Why do I have to wait this long to see why you think they didn’t just take the eagles.

Christina Garnett: Exactly! Give it to me now. But I’m expecting it in multiple videos, I’m going to give you the views. It’s user behaviour that’s so wild but you have to understand how people behave there. I think since Elon took over Twitter we are seeing that too. A lot of people have tried to find an alternative and there are plenty of alternatives but honestly none of them scratch the right itch. So user behaviour is like I guess I’m staying on Twitter until it burns to the ground because there is no alternative that truly supplements or completely covers it up. So you have to know that user culture, you have to know the user behaviour and what that does for them. Where are they getting something different from you? If I put it on YouTube versus Spotify versus somewhere else, how is their experience different? Are they any different in how they are doing it? Are they watching it on their computer versus their phone versus their TV? Even that’s a different experience, we see this all the time. Martin Scorsese would have you go to the cinemas every single time to watch his movie. You’ve not going to watch that on a Netflix app on your phone, how dare you! It’s the same thing, it’s how you place it and how that changes the experience. Because it changes the experience it changes how they relate to that content.

Joe Duccareux: 100%! I completely agree with you actually because particularly with podcasts. Podcasts tend to be a passive thing, you tend to be doing something else while you are listening to a podcast. I know there are certain podcasts that I save specifically for when I am doing the housework because it then motivates me to do the housework. What tips can you offer to help make content more shareable? It’s difficult to break it down platform by platform but do you have any general tips on that?

Christina Garnett: I think it helps to be a voracious consumer yourself. There is a book called The Creative Curve by Allen Gannett. He talks about these great creators, he talks about Netflix, he talks about all of these companies that we know now that are hyper established. But if you look back at their history, they were hyper consumers. They were ravenous at creating content. That tends to be, for me, the greatest unlock because I am constantly looking at other people’s content. And really thinking about what makes me stop, what makes me want to learn more; is it the person, is it the hook they used, is it the story they were telling, is it the brand they were talking about? If you dissect what makes you feel the way you do and what’s making you share things and what’s making it so that …..it’s not so much I liked it and consumed it, I need to share it so that others can enjoy it. Understanding that is incredibly important. And when it comes to your customers having a strong feedback loop, talking to them, being customer obsessed. What do you like, what are you looking for? I think it’s really telling because if you look at webinars and events, especially post-Covid; everyone’s doing a webinar, everyone’s doing an event but is there really any difference in the content that’s being shared or is it all kind of homogeneous ?

I see tons of events but I could put them all in one room and be like battle it to the death, you are all doing the same thing. Just give me the winner, I’ll take the winner. It’s true, you have to be very thoughtful and you don’t know that if you have your head down, you’re myopic. Being a consumer, being customer obsessed and wanting to learn. I find that curiosity is the best unlock for creatives because if you are curious then there is a part of you that understands that you don’t know everything and you need to keep constantly learning you constantly need to keep doing. That keeps you humble but it also keeps you ambitious. So you are going to constantly want to do more and you’re constantly going to want to learn. So that really needs to be at the heart of what you are doing. I find that’s going to make you see those patterns, it’s going to make you realise what’s working and what’s not working and then you are able to create that plan for really successful content.

Joe Duccareaux: What you are saying essentially is perhaps a useful exercise might be to watch yourself, watch yourself watching content and as you do stop, think what was it that made me stop on this particular piece of content. What was it? Really focus on – was it the heading, was it them saying ‘hey check this out for second’, what element of that content made you stop? That’s fantastic.

Christina Garnett: And also continue doing it because once you have that answer you are also going to see patterns. There is a thing on TikTok where people have their captions and then a lot of people are starting to do the exact same types of captions where it turns bright yellow or it turns bright red or it has an icon instead of the word. That’s amazing but the problems that marketers have, that we are all guilty of is we find something that works and then we as an industry literally kill it by every single person doing the exact same thing. We then act as though the consumers are going to love it and are always going to get it. There’s a reason why they reach pattern recognition in elementary school, it’s not hard. But if every single video has the exact same tricks and tips and tactics, even though it used to work, my brain is going to be like ‘nah, this isn’t any different’.

Joe Duccareaux: It doesn’t take that long.

Christina Garnett: It does not take that long and I think we forget that. It’s the whole growth hacking mentality of the 2000’s where we’re going to find these tips and tricks and then we are going to use them, the consumers are never going to figure it out. They are figuring it out and Gen Z knows about that, Gen Z gets it, they grew up with digital. So they’re understanding and seeing trends even before marketers are and then the time the marketing establishment has embraced it and starting creating content around it, Gen Z is like ‘you’re lame’. Out of date, too late. It’s just very interesting but I think that’s why you have to be that constant consumer because you start seeing and you can spot like ‘no, that trend’s dead now’. When it gets to Facebook or your CEO mentions it, it’s gone around the world enough that you’re like ‘nah, it’s not fresh anymore’. It’s not and it’s done!

Joe Duccareaux: Christina this has been a really fascinating conversation. I’ve really enjoyed chatting to you and I hope that our audience watching this has as well. If there’s one top tip you’d like to offer everybody watching this today, about the power of emotion and creating content which converts. What is that one key takeaway you would like to offer everybody today?

Christina Garnett: Remember that the work you are doing is human. What you are trying to create in people is human. So there’s a lot of conversation about AI, there’s a lot of conversations about automation but the core of what you are doing is human; human behaviour, human psychology. So no matter what tools, tips and tricks that you are using, no matter how advanced that technology is at the end of the day you are still trying to make humans….. with tons of variables which you cannot control or even know about…. You are still trying to get them to do specific behaviours. At the heart of what you are doing, you can’t lose sight of that.

Joe Duccareaux: Christina Garnett, thank you so much for joining me for this Lead Forensics, Essential B2B Webinar. It’s been a pleasure.

Christina Garnett: Thanks for having me.